It took a good day of waiting since my post yesterday, but the much anticipated druid changes are finally here! But what to make of them?
Surely, these seem like rather interesting and creative changes. We can only muse about how they will play out once Cataclysm goes live, so in the meantime, lets take an in depth look at the changes.
Please refer to my previous post for a list of all changes.
Eclipse
This is a very interesting change. Right off the bat, it means that we will not suffer nearly as much from moving as we do currently. This mechanic is very similar to the stacking suggestion I made somewhere: When you cast a nature spell, you gain a stack of lunar eclipse and vice versa.
The easiest way to look at this is to consider Starfire and Wrath a 100% damage spell. If you cast a starfire, the next will do, say, 90% damage, the next 80%, 70% and so on. At some point you decide that you do not want to cast starfire anymore – probably when your moonfire runs out – and you switch to wrath. Your first wrath will be buffed to do, say, 150% more damage. The next will do 145% damage, then 140% and so on. I am going to assume that it takes roughly two wraths to move the meter the same distance as one starfire does.
If you are just spamming these abilities, the net damage will be the same over any length of fight – much like an mage that does nothing but spam Arcane Missiles. Thats fine, because the spells will probably be normalized, where we right now need eclipse to be up to do comparable damage, but now we will do it right off the bat. Where this system can really shine is when you are able to plan ahead. How can we use this to our benefit?
You know that bloodlust is coming in 10 seconds. You spam a lot of wraths, making your starfires really powerful. When bloodlust comes, you can throw some very fast, very big starfires. I am not sure how this will effect the meter – it would obviously deplete the meter faster, but I would think that Blizzard has a way around this. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense that our spells cannot go below 100% damage – so once your meter is at the middle, your starfires will still do 100%, but the wrath buff will stack up. This allows you to still take full advantage of bloodlust, with a big burst at the beginning, and then spamming normal damage starfire for the remaining duration. This also means that we end each bloodlust with a very powerful wrath, which we then switch over to afterwards. If Blizzard DOES allow our starfire/wrath to go below 100%, then they will need to find a way to compensate for this.
When you have to move, you can spam instant cast spells to stack up whatever eclipse type you prefer. It will give you a lot of control when you get to know a fight. This change actually makes movement much less of a trouble than before, because we are compensated for the movement by getting more powerful spells when we stand still.
Eclipse Mastery
How Eclipse Mastery will play out is very hard to tell. The simplest way to implement this is to simply make the additional bonus stronger. It might make the eclipse meter longer, so we are able to stack it further to one side if we wish, although that would make us switch spells less. It might stack up the buff faster, but that would probably mean that our current buff depletes faster. I am probably going to have to go with the first suggestion made, and assume that spells can be buffed, say, 50% in either direction, and the more mastery we have, the higher will this scale go. If it takes 10 starfires to buff wrath to 150% damage, then more mastery could make 10 starfires buff wrath to 175% damage.
Nature’s Torrent
I am not sure what to think of this. It will probably be a big hitting spell, although I am not sure if it is instant or not. It will do a different type of damage depending on how your eclipse meter is looking, and it is probably something we will want to use everytime it is off cooldown. If it didn’t do very much damage, it would have to be instant, so we could quickly move the meter, but my money is on a big hitter that we use once we are done casting one type of spell, do a large amount of damage, and then switch to the other nuke.
From this, our rotation would probably look something like this:
Moonfire, Starfire until full solar eclipse, Nature’s Torrent, Insect Swarm, wrath until full lunar eclipse, Nature’s Torrent, Moonfire, repeat.
Wild Mushroom
This is a very currious ability. I am not sure what to make of it. It seems like Blizzard wants to give us more options to do AOE damage. But for some reason, Blizzard thinks that it is fine to do on a single target fight as well, probably when it is buffed by eclipse. I think of it somewhat like warlock’s Seed of Corruption, although it doesn’t require damage to explode.
We can probably only have one mushroom up at the same time. Casting it again will probably simply detonate it ahead of time, which is the only reason I can come up with to why we have the ability to explode it at will. If we simply plant it in a pack of mobs, or near the boss, it probably wont explode before it turns invisible, but if we detonate before it turns invisible, it might blow up right away. But if we can simply detonate it right when we spawn it, the damage would have to be comparable to starfire and wrath, because otherwise we wouldn’t use it on a single target unless we are moving around. It is probably nature damage, and would affect our eclipse meter as well.
I must be honest, this ability confuses me a little bit, but once we get more information on it, and are able to brood over the posibilities more, a way of using this will probably arise. In any case, it sounds like a fun little “proximity mine”, and I am sure that PvP’ers will love to set up traps in BG’s and arenas.
What about DOTs?
Unfortately, it doesn’t appear from the preview that our DOTs will be affected by crit and haste, is other classes are. HOTs are surely affected, but it may be that Blizzard hasn’t decided on it yet. I still think that DOTs will be part of our rotation, and we will probably cast them with a fully charged eclipse meter to get the most out of them. The way they scale with spell power will just have to be corrected a bit.
Stampeding Roar
I sort of feel like I should mention this ability. There is nothing stopping us from switching into bear or cat form to cast this on our raid members, or we could even use it if we have to move a long distance, like if you are far away from the spore meeting point on Festergut, or if Sindragosa pulls you in for a Blistering Cold just before you wanted to reset your stack. As always, I am sure that we will find a way to use this ability, at least in some fights.
Unanswered Questions
There are a lot of “What about”‘s and “What If”‘s hanging in the air, but we must keep in mind that this is probably not every change that is coming with Cataclysm. Preview is preview, one might say, and there are still months before we will actually see Cataclysm. Some of the things I wonder about are:
- Starfall – Will each star hitting the target count as one cast, or will the stars have a set damage depending on the eclipse meter when they were cast? They are obviously arcane, so they would favor a full lunar eclipse meter.
- Treants – Are they nature? Will their damage depend on the state of the eclipse meter?
- Typhoon – Assuming that this is a nature spell, is this just going to be a weak version of Nature’s Torrent that we use when we move about?
- Hurricane – Much like Starfall, will this count as one movement on the eclipse meter, or will each hit change it? That could make AOE look something like Hurricane > Mushroom > Hurricane > Mushroom. Although, Hurricane is nature as well, isn’t it?
- Eclipse – A guildie of mine mentioned that the change to Eclipse sounds a bit like a meter that Goblin Shamans have in Warhammer Online. But in this version, you can supposively stack the meter up to five, and the next cast resets the meter completely. I wouldn’t like this idea very much. I would much rather have it that spells could not go below 100% damage, and that the Eclipse meter works as a scale that moves in one direction or the other.
- Will there be a change to Nature’s Grace or Wrath, to allow Wrath to scale better with haste? Obviously, we will need more haste, because we will get less haste per haste rating, but we seem to get a lot of haste just by spending talents in the balance tree.
Lots of information, lots of answers, lots of things to theorycraft about. It is currently 4:30 AM. I have pneumonia, I am very tired, and my head is buzzing with ideas. Give it some time to settle in, and lets see what the future brings.
What do you think about the changes?





hope u feel better soon qieth
I appreciate the thought. As do I
Just a few weeks ago, I had a massive headache for over a month. I don’t need to be sick again.
i dont know about you guys, but im excited for the changes, and overall im sure we’ll be better. and eclipse seems like it could be really exploitable in arena
I was even thinking, if there is no decay on the eclipse meter, you could really rack up the damage on trash before a boss. Heck, maybe even heals would stack up towards nature, so popping a few heals on yourself before a fight could charge the meter for awesome power.
We will see. Good night for now!
EDIT: Just to quote Restokin. One word that owns everything before it:
Shroomkin!
The meter sounds awesome – perhaps it will have a small internal CD to deal with hurricane and starfall damage – but this would obv have to be around the 1 second GCD mark – so as not to nerf wrath.
Maybe I’m missing out on something…
I hope that they do something about how the meter will react with Bloodlust – as its sickening that we – as Balance droods only get like 15 seconds of Bloodlust as it is.
All in all it looks great – more versatility for us droods.
I can imagine AOE packs – hurricane, shroom and starfall keeping the meter static.
I might actually have to entirely reroll Shroomkin if this Mushroom thingie goes live. Srsly.
The Eclipse change is… interesting. On paper, as it is now, it looks fantastic. If I get into the beta, it’ll be one of the first things I’ll be looking at. The possibilities are endless, but so are the limitations. I guess we’ll see.
Also, as I don’t know if it’s possible editing a comment: your DoTs will scale with crit and haste. Look at this comment from GC: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=24262387043&sid=1&pageNo=27 (just scroll down a slight bit).
Yeah, yeah, I am just reporting on what was posted, you know
I did mention that it was probably just an oversight, though
You’re assuming that as one spell is increased in power by the new eclipse mechanic, the opposing spell would be decreased. There is no mention of spells losing potency below 100%. Ie if you wrathx5, then starfire will be at 150% (just making up a number for example) but wrath should stay at 100%, not drop to 50%. As you starfire, it would drop back down the scale to 100%, but it would never drop below that.
Im not assuming anything – i am contemplating. I actually mentioned just that system throughout the blog, but i still have to report the possibility that it can decrease the value of the current spell.
Ok, sorry. Maybe I misread last night – though you were saying that the main nukes would drop below 100% as the opposing spell was rising, which there is no language in blizzards post to support. (Are you sure you didn’t edit it… or…?)
Well, I was sleepy when i read it so I probably just misunderstood
No, i was suggesting both. Who am i to say that it works one way instead of the other? In the 2nd paragraph, i suggest that there is punishment for spamming one spell, and in the 4th paragraph, i browse the fact that it wouldn’t make much sense to have it like that.
You are free to re-read my post. I don’t make major edits like that without making it clear.
Hey Qieth!
Here’s another thing I came to wonder about with all the changes:
I really hope they design Nature’ Torrent as something like Arcane Barrage (instant, with a low CD so it’s available when you have to move, but won’t be used that often…you get the picture, I think).
Apart from that, I came across something about the new eclipse system.
If they do it like you suggested with both nature and arcane damage increased via the eclipse-o-meter, we won’t have a reachable soft-crit-cap (no 40% crit for starfire anymore), but still a very low soft-haste-cap. With resto druids normally wanting more haste than crit and us sharing gear with them in cata, I can see a little gearing problem here.
Although, Nature’s Grace (if remaining unchanged) won’t be up that much then with all that crit lacking, in turn raising the value of haste for us (?) .
How do you think they will solve this (if at all).
No reason to rush, though, since there’s plenty of time until cata will launch…
Best wishes,
Bartol aka Súri
I dont think this will be a problem, as long as we are balanced around it. I do think that they will change the +crit from lunar eclipse to +damage. If they kept it at crit, we could run into troubles with the mastery stat if we are crit capped, but then increase our mastery.
If lunar eclipse gets turned into a +damage effect like solar eclipse, it would hardly make any difference damage wise. The general rule of thumb currently is that two wraths equal one starfire, and one lunar starfire crit equals two solar wraths (on average, considering various crit rate). Starfire and Wrath are more or less responsible for an equal amount of damage on a nuke fight, and 40% crit is *more or less* equal to 40% damage. (I say more or less, but ill avoid going into the finer details here
)
Changing lunar eclipse to +damage means that we wont have a 100% chance to crit, but the added damage would mostly be the same. It would mean that Nature’s Grace could fall off during starfire spam, but it would turn Nature’s Grace into a “When it procs, your next starfire or next two wraths will be hasted”-kind of talent. This isn’t bad, as long as we are balanced around a lower uptime of NG. We get haste from gear and from having more talents in the balance tree, so the extra haste we have goes a long way to even out the “loss” of NG. But I don’t think it will be that bad.
We probably wouldn’t be bothered by a low haste cap – even if we apply the changes to our current situation. Haste is still good, even for wrath, because NG doesn’t have a 100% uptime. Right now, haste after wrath cap only benefits starfire – in Cataclysm, haste would also affect our dots, which would in turn make them a lot stronger, especially if we pop IS when we are all charged up on solar energy, and vice versa for moonfire and lunar energy.
If these changes were applied right now, they would be a big damage increase, assuming we are on track with the eclipse changes. These things could work just fine in Cataclysm, as long as the numbers are tweaked correctly.